interview
'Poetry is on the decline worldwide'

Javed Shaheen talks about ideological commitments and sensibilities in poetry
By Abdul Hafeez

Javed Shaheen is one of those poets who gave new direction to the modern poetry in Pakistan. Poetry emanating from a modern sensibility took roots in the decade of 1960s when poets like Zafar Iqbal, Munir Niazi, Saleem Shahid, Yousaf Kamran and Javed Shaheen introduced innovations both in diction and subject-matter. Javed Shaheen came to fame immediately after the publication of his collection first poetry 'Zakhm-e-musalsal Ki Hari Shaakh'.

Tales old and new
Intizar Hussain brings back to life the art of story telling and myths formed by the collective memories of the human race

By Sarwat Ali

Nai Purani Kahaniaan
By Intizar Hussain
Sange Meel Publications, Lahore 2006
Pages 240 Price Rs 250

Zia Mohyeddin column
'The ugly American'

As a young drama trainee in London I discovered that the students -- not only at the Academy where I was studying, but elsewhere as well -- found nothing more hilarious than to speak to each other in exaggerated American accents, sending up American tourists as loud, ostentatious, gum-chewing individuals who couldn't wait to get back to Kalamazoo ("Kalamazoo, Michigan?" "No, Kalamazoo, Arizona", was the standard repetitive phrase) to eat a real burger.


Javed Shaheen talks about ideological commitments and sensibilities in poetry

By Abdul Hafeez

Javed Shaheen is one of those poets who gave new direction to the modern poetry in Pakistan. Poetry emanating from a modern sensibility took roots in the decade of 1960s when poets like Zafar Iqbal, Munir Niazi, Saleem Shahid, Yousaf Kamran and Javed Shaheen introduced innovations both in diction and subject-matter. Javed Shaheen came to fame immediately after the publication of his collection first poetry 'Zakhm-e-musalsal Ki Hari Shaakh'.

TNS: When did you start writing poetry?

JS: I composed my first couplet as a student of class eighth. Then I turned it into a ghazal. Later, of course, I discovered that my ghazal was worthless and did not conform to 'technical' requirements.

TNS: Is it correct that you wanted to become an actor, but instead you discovered yourself as a poet?

JS: There is no limit to human desire. But all wishes cannot materialise. I soon realised that I was not good enough for acting.

TNS: It is believed that the worse of circumstances beget high quality literature. Do you agree?

JS: Not completely. Take a look at the circumstances of our own country and the quality of our literature. Today you hardly come across any literary book worth reading.

Saadat Hasan Manto and Dostoyevsky were two exceptions. There were several instances when a writer created great literary work even when he was not facing economic hardships. However, I am firm in my belief that mental satisfaction enhances the creative faculties of a writer.

TNS: You are a writer, poet and a translator. Which genre of literature is most important for you?

JS: I am primarily a poet and I take great pride in it. Infact, poetry is my forte but my other works must not be ignored altogether. Translations earn me my livelihood but I never compromise on quality. It is true that my poetry has won me many accolades, but other literary works have also been appreciated. My memoir titled 'Meray Mah-o-Saal' created a stir in literary circles, although it left a few of my friends offended. But I do not compromise on principles.

TNS: You are considered to be a progressive writer. How important do you feel is ideological commitment for a writer?

JS: I think ideological commitment is very important for a writer or poet. I believe that there is no difference between progressive and revolutionary literature. A poet cannot remain indifferent to circumstances. Objectivity forms the basis for subjectivity. Can a poet overlook the socio-economic realities? If he does, I think he is being dishonest.

I was greatly impressed with the philosophy of Progressive Writers Association. I understand that the Progressive Writers Movement gave a new life to literature. It produced giants of Urdu literature. But I must point out that poetic sensibility is also an important ingredient of poetry. Ideological commitment coupled with poetic sensibility gives rise to quality poetic works.

TNS: What is the reason for the decline of mushaira culture?

JS: In my opinion, commercialism heavily damaged literature, particularly poetry. Poetry is gradually losing its social importance. You hardly find good poetry in Pakistan now, but then poetry is on the decline worldwide. I don't see a bright future of poetry in Pakistan since the priorities of the people have now changed. When there are no poets, there will be no mushairas.

TNS: Is prose poem a controversial genre of literature?

JS: No. Some people are opposed to it, but prose poems are being written all over the world. Writing prose poem is a difficult job as you are supposed to be very careful about the use of diction.

TNS: What are your views about modern poetry and fiction?

JS: If modern poetry and fiction mean the distortion of language, I outrightly reject it. Some poets and fiction writers by carrying out absurd linguistic formulations claim to be modern poets and fiction writers, which is nonsense. Modern sensibility is more important but not at the cost of the language.

TNS: Anis Nagi says that ghazal has become obsolete, and it has lost its significance. Do you endorse him?

JS: No. Anis Nagi is among those who started the Modern Poem Movement in the 1960s. Iftikhar Jalib was his mentor.

These people were incapable of writing ghazal. Ask them why the Modern Poem Movement died down? Ghazal is still alive. Those proclaiming the death of ghazal are living in a fool's paradise.

TNS: Which writers have influenced you the most?

JS: Pablo Neruda and Dostoyevsky are matchless. Ghalib is the greatest Urdu poet. Besides, I was greatly impressed by Faiz Ahmad Faiz, Noon Meem Rashid, Abdullah Hussain, Sahir Ludhianvi, Habib Jalib, Saadat Hasan Manto, Rajindar Singh Bedi, Nasir Kazmi and of course, Munir Niazi.

 


Tales old and new

Intizar Hussain brings back to life the art of story telling and myths formed by the collective memories of the human race

By Sarwat Ali

Nai Purani Kahaniaan

By Intizar Hussain

Sange Meel Publications, Lahore 2006

Pages 240 Price Rs 250

If Intizar Hussain's creative life is divided into phases then his fascination for the parables, mythology, fables and tales can be said to fall in the later phase. For the last 30 odd years he has retained that fascination for the rich lore of myths and legends. Recently a selection of the tales that he finds to be most fascinating has been published, which he has titled 'Nai Purani Kahaniaan.'

Intizar Hussain's fiction, according to him, is a combination of Krishan Chander's realism and Sarshaar's narrative style, both couched in the stories and tales that he heard sitting in his grandmother's lap during his childhood.

He laments the fact that the age of story telling was eclipsed by the age of reason in the West and a new form of literature came into existence. The story had to be original with a seal of copyright affixed to it. It had to be realistic. All literature that was not realistic was considered to be escapist. This belief was followed by those who espoused the cause of changing the world and considered literature as a legitimate weapon towards achieving that end. Even when the modern fiction writers rebelled against the obvious realism of stating the tangible; what was recognisable through the introduction of artistic devices like the internal monologue, free association of ideas and the stream of consciousness they were also branded as escapists.

In Pakistan the first person who decided to look anew at myths and lore was Muhammed Hasan Askari but he interpreted these tales from a modern perspective by judging their realistic content. Among the intellectuals in India, Firaq also decided to tap the vast fund of mythological pool but he restricted himself only to poetry, not even breathing a word about prose in the process.

All this was in comparison to the time when the myths were created. There is no individual author of these myths and legends as they were formed by the collective memory of the human race. Many from time to time rewrote these myths , by selecting whatever they found to be of greater interest and drank from the surging stream that flowed perennially.

In our part of the world Persian, Arabic and Sanskrit works formed the body of myths and lore but what astounded Intizar Hussain was the similarity that existed between the myths of cultures which were diverse, and regions which were far apart. There could be many reasons for it. The geographical distances did not make the societies insular, instead, there was considerable exchange even in an age where means of transport were very slow. The myths of one culture were absorbed in others that were similar and the process was facilitated probably by the common human condition. Whether in the Nordic icepack or in the deserts of sub-Saharan Africa the myths resonated striking similarities.

There are the snakes, the water, the fish and the cow. In the centre of the world, in the dead bottom, is inhabited by snakes. Raja Nasik, the grandest snake rules there. Under him is the hood of the sheesh nag on which this world rests and under that is a tortoise on whose back rests the hooded sheesh nag. Beneath that is water. According to Intizar Hussain's grandmother, the world rested on the horn of a cow. In 'Qasasul Ambiah'. a fish swims on water, on the fish stands the cow on one leg and on one of its horns rests the earth. It is surrounded by snakes, and there is an angel in the shape of a mosquito The cow, afraid, does not move but when it's tired, shifts the world from one horn to another.

Many of the myths have become enshrined in religion. Unlike the Greek myths which are treated as literature, the myths in some areas became part of religion and still very much form a living tradition. A lot of myths belonging to this area have found their permanent place in the Hindu religion, which is seen as an impediment in wanting to know more about these myths as literature in comparison to societies where they did not become part of religion but were considered to be what they were. This stock of fables provided the artistic heritage of that people. When these myths appeared in art they assumed a secular hue. Now the same interest has been revived in the West with a new kind of fiction called 'magic realism'.

Intizar Hussain has not collected these myths as curiosities but has only dug into his memory to refresh many of the stories that he had heard as a child. He recalls his childhood in his village Dubai which was steeped in lore, myths and tales. Every nook, corner, empty space and dark spot was associated with some mysterious happening. It was a place where they found refuge in the cocoon of myths.

These myths as presented in the book had to be translated from other languages in Urdu and had to be put together, collected, sifted and then compiled .If he found any reference, he made a note of it and if he found another reference in another place or work, he crossed checked it and added it to his compilation.

These have been divided into sections , pointing to the tradition that the tale belongs to. These include Qasis Kahani, Katha Kahani, Lok Kahani, Jatak Kahani, Januwar Kahani and Kaga Tantar.



Zia Mohyeddin column

'The ugly American'

As a young drama trainee in London I discovered that the students -- not only at the Academy where I was studying, but elsewhere as well -- found nothing more hilarious than to speak to each other in exaggerated American accents, sending up American tourists as loud, ostentatious, gum-chewing individuals who couldn't wait to get back to Kalamazoo ("Kalamazoo, Michigan?" "No, Kalamazoo, Arizona", was the standard repetitive phrase) to eat a real burger.

It was around this time -- America had not yet risen as a global superpower -- that the American arrogance of power was fictionalised by Eugene Burdick and William Lederer under the title of 'The Ugly American.' The novel (a collection of inter-linked short stories -- and very funny) was a scathing indictment of American policy in Asia and showed how crass insensitivity on the part of American diplomats failed to win what has now come to be known as 'the battle for hearts and minds.'

For those of you who have not heard of the book, 'The Ugly American' became a bestseller (it was turned into a very ordinary film) because it was a slashing exposeŽ of American incompetence and corruption in Southeast Asia. Ironically, The 'ugly American' of the title is the 'good guy', an engineer who lives off the economy and the culture of the local people. He is a well-meaning American, who does not huddle around the embassy commissaries, but tries to understand the needs of the local people and helps them improve their lives with home-made engineering.

Needless to say that living in England and mingling mostly with people who felt that America had never contributed anything to world civilisation except chewing gum and Coca-Cola, my view became somewhat jaundiced and so when I first went to America I expected every woman to be wearing purple-rinsed hair. I was soon jolted out of my censoriousness. The Americans I came across were sensitive, articulate individuals who thoroughly disapproved of the gung-ho redneck view of the world. They were the 'ugly' Americans.

It was a bitterly cold winter and yet there was an indescribable energy as palpable as the steam rising out of the grills on the pavements of Manhattan. Nowhere was this energy better manifested than in that unique American theatrical form known as the 'musical.' It is my contention that the American musical, a combination of dance and imaginatively composed numbers, is the liveliest and the most original form of theatre in the 20th century. Other countries have tried to imitate the form but they have not been able to match the vitality of the American productions.

This is not to say that in the field of what old actors used to call 'legit theatre' the Americans have lagged behind. American playwrights have had a tremendous share in shaping their realistic theatre. Their contribution is rooted in their ability to cast away the existing fustian dramaturgy and be critical. The plays of Eugene O'Neill, the guru of modern American theatre, are specifically a criticism of American life. O'Neill was an 'ugly' American.

It was in the achievements of Tennessee Williams and Arthur Miller (ugly Americans, both) that the post-war period in America found the most gratification. I shall mention only two plays: 'Glass Menagerie' by Tennessee Williams and 'Death of A Salesman' by Arthur Miller. In the 'Glass Menagerie', a seedy Southern woman clings to the memory of better days, her painfully shy, crippled daughter for whom the mother tries to find a 'gentleman caller', and a restive poetic son who, tiring of perpetual nagging, runs away from home after the tragic fiasco of bringing on an already affianced young man for his sister.

The play endeared itself to theatregoers as a fusion of realism and poetic theatre. Williams' portraits of the two women, the young Laura, too shy to face reality and her mother Amanda, too incompetent to cope with it effectively, were suggestive of a trapped womanhood that he had observed in the South.

Tennessee Williams tackles his subject matter with enormous earnestness. Tough talk, which became a necessary ingredient of naturalistic American drama, is not his speciality. His dialogue often has a changing rhythm of translucence rarely to be found in other American playwrights. It has a liveliness caught from actual life. Eric Bentley was perhaps the first critic to observe that in the plays of Williams "life is no longer encased in wisecracks. Its subtle and changing contours are suggested by the melody and rhythm and passion of active speech." Williams took a realistic situation and blended it with theatrical, if not poetic imagination.

In the hands of Miller and Williams, realism that had remained the dominant style of American theatre transcended into newer dimensions. Arthur Miller took a realistic situation and combined it with expressionist technique. He excelled himself in presenting ordinary men caught in a moral dilemma. In 'Death', Miller presented the pain and suffering of an ordinary man, Willy Loman. Willy, a superannuated salesman, is in conflict with his sons whose failure to come up to his expectations is a cross he has to bear in a disappointing career. He entertains great hopes for one of his sons, a football hero. Ultimately Willy, who had earlier sought death as escape from life, kills himself in order to preserve his image of himself as the man who has produced a great son. Willy's suburban little activities, his parental passion, his heroic efforts to maintain his self-esteem and dreams qualify him for a role in classic tragedy.

The best of American drama -- and novel -- gives us a penetrating picture of what happens to characters when their 'American Dream' is shattered. The majority of the people in America are not concerned with ethical questions; they do not know what goes on in the world; indeed, the proverbial American from Omaha, Nebraska, does not know what goes on in the rest of America and doesn't care. He is hard at work struggling to acquire his first million, which might enable him to join the country club and get a better pew in his church. No one portrays the current American society better that one of my favourite novelists, John Updike:

"...America's wasteland of tawdry entertainments, of shopping-mall parking lots as large as lakes and seedy roadside bars advertising karaoke on Wednesday nights, of deserted downtowns and razed forests, of moving job to job and mate to mate, amid such electronic distractions as heist movies featuring car wrecks and fireballs and television comedies that reflect as in a fuzzy, fizzing mirror the awkward comedy of our desperate daily improvisations beyond the ordering principles of church, village and family hierarchy..."

Updike brings every detail of contemporary existence into sharp and bright focus. I cannot think of any other contemporary writer who can turn sin and seduction into such exquisite melancholy. He is yet another 'ugly' American that we ought to salute.

 

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